(I figured that if you had a DSM book that you were in mental health in some capacity, and Ive read your other comments on other threads.). He certainly used the threat of excommunication and shunning as a form of the rack. We ran this support group for 16 years. They say a picture is worth a thousand words. Sproul, Jr. has a serious drinking problem; Thank you. However, it is not the same as a disease which is not brought on by the choice of behavior. . Sounds like something an enabling father would say, doesnt it? It is frightening for them and overwhelming that they could be kicked out of their church if their problem became known. More like As much as I can, as strong as I can, to get as hammered as I can, as fast as I can? But to take that info and post it here? I meant no offense to Claire, nor did I intend to pick on her specifically. Not all former drinkers transform into likeable people. Even books Ive read by MHPs or counselors will sometimes have a chapter cautioning people who are suffering from problems to be careful if seeking a MHP for their own use, because some MHPs are incompetent, greedy, or too arrogant to be of help. His daughter, Shannon, born with Lissencephaly,died in October, 2014 at the age of 15. Beloved theologian R.C. http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/. There are many lovely ones and I count several as close friends. I definitely agree with #1 and #2. Well, now look at this: pic.twitter.com/KBEkiBnVkG. It has its uses because social pressure can be brought to bear from time to time, and you do know whether to let your kids go play over at so and sos house (not if Daddy is a drunk, for instance and keeping with this conversation) and it does get out who (married) was seen with whom (not a spouse) and what sweet young thing got into the car with whom after school after being forbidden to do that. No excuses. . Good insights. She did not show that she had no clue. Daisy, The key part to what Deborah added was the addict has to want to be helped., Ill admit to being too lazy to scroll back up the page to read Barbs original comments, but I dont recall her asking for anyone to be publicly humiliated (?). That doesnt mean there arent possibly a whole host of them out there. (Guy was kind of a jerk, but still) He was taking a shortcut home from work on his motorcycle when a drunk head-oned his bike. A question: Sproul 2s drinking (and whatever other problems that he has) and an intervention by family and friends with a trained professional. I grew up in a verbally abusive family, so I have been here before. Gods Word says that whatever does not proceed from faith is sin (Rom. or an idolater, [worshiping false gods] Yes,?, no?, I dont know ? So Velour, you have now ordered JulieAnne around by telling her what she needs to do. and who was reeling from Fridays put downs and for calls to kick alcoholics out of churches. I wouldnt wish it on my worst enemy, including my ex-pastor who did it to me (and the doctor before me and to the woman in finance before him) or the other horrible pastors/elders. The record of his life, the record he created and boasted about in his own sermons and publications, the record he established boozing it up in front of his church members, proves that RC Sproul Jr has been abusing the booze for many many years prior to his personal family tragedies. @ Claire: If he Sproul gets clean and sober he will probably ditch many ideas that he used to justify including patriarchy. I remember a few times (fewer than the number of excommunications, of course), someone was also publicly welcomed back at a worship service and biblically restored to the body. The problem drinker, on the other hand, CAN help it. It makes me very sad that a gathering place like this, which seems to be a collection of misfits and wounded sheep (like me) cant do any better than this. So far, nobody has mentioned Jr.s recent second marriage. (And the same goes for HUG where he contemptuously described me as righteous.). You and Barbara Roberts have never said, You know, I have no clue how to deal with substance abuse. If he didn't lie, why would he later plead guilty? Thats wonderful, Leslie, that you started a safe group that was so helpful to other parents. I havent seen anyone here, including the people you keep belittling, say that a church shouldnt even try to get professional help for an alcoholic member, just the opposite. He regained his health, went to AA, extensive counseling and stayed sober. Yes, I remember being part of a group meeting where a social worker talked to a crowd of us about how to deal with an alcoholic in our group. If he has been drinking as long as is being alleged, Sproul is at high risk of offending again. I had to be treated for major clinical depression and be put on anti-depressants. Telling me how to think, how to feel, that Im not permitted to use certain terminology. A lot of injury can be done by someone driving under the influence of alcohol. DUI/DWI with minors in the vehicle is a crime. I guess you can just take a piece of bread, then. Psychiatric evaluation with continuing monitoring to help with alcohol abuse as self-med for suffering from unresolved pain brought on by deep grief. ^ " ^ . This issue of RC Jr having suffered tragedies (the loss of his wife in 2011 to cancer, the loss of his daughter in 2012), has been brought up here and elsewhere repeatedly. Of course people have to want sobriety for it to work. I am sorry for what you have been through. Her parents didnt get to see her graduate from high school or college. He said "wine" not alcohol. It is very sad that money, power and prestige can buy one out of justice. And he does say at the end of the article the Bible does not condemn alcohol, and so I cannot forbid my brother in Christ from drinking. We all hope that Dr. Sproul attempted to intercede with his sons alcoholism, rather than leaving his sons conscience to deal with it he was obviously in trouble. Instead she said ha ha and discussed kicking him out of the church, complete with scripture verses to justify the deed. Here is a link to the DSM-V Criteria (manual for Psychiatric disorders) for Alcohol Use Disorder: lots of contempt in them there words .. what is the story behind them? Perhaps cushion the fall but still let them fall. Max wrote: How can a nature be crucified? I felt Velour was hostile towards Barbara and me, and also H.A. I could be paving the path to hell for them. That Frankenstein line of forehead stitches did it heal up? I have been talking about how the church should react in the face of this sort of egregious behavior. Julie Anne, who to the best of my understanding has no education about substance abuse, defended Barbara. God bless you and your friend in every way, and so glad you are here, Deb. When I was a month away from turning 13, I was invited by a friend to go to Myrtle Beach with her and her parents. Not astounding to me. I lost a number of friends in high school who didnt. I love them dearly & only wish they could have the love & grace that you & your church offered to her. Help train Christians to boldly share the good news of Jesus Christ in a way that clearly communicates to this secular age. I was only thinking of verse 11. Unbelievers have often accused Christians of Dark Ages thinking. But for a professing believer to attack other believers in such a manner is disturbing. What it did do is wake him up to his own sins and cause effective change immediately. Not sorry I did, either. lots of contempt in them there words .. what is the story behind them? Velour wrote: An avid Steelers and Pirates fan, sports were a big part of his life. He had always been so nice before, but that made me feel that I couldnt trust him. It has been unopened for a month now, waiting for the opportune time to celebrate. People need to wake up. tempt others into heavy drinking, act as a Pastor while not being in a fit state to do so & so on), does he actually need to be out of this environment for his & others protection? RC sr. would have pontificated from on high with that authoritative voice the nonsense he often says, like he does with science, which he knows next to nothing about. Heres where it can be complicated to be part of the church if the church environment is where hes long been allowed to play out sinful behaviours should he be there right now? Geeze Louise. Isnt there some kind of authoritative oversight in the Presbyterian denomination? Velour wrote: Oddly enough, it does affect my entitlement to drive. It's disturbing. JA, I addressed that in a blog post on my Miss Daisy Blog some time ago (that my posts at Barbaras blog were censored for mentioning codependency. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. However, I dont believe their marginal successes in any merit the sort of dogmatic enthusiasm you give them. The next tweet shows a message from Pine Hills Church when I inquired if their church is charismatic and asked about the denomination. ), are out of line. Hopefully they get to Al-Anon and counseling. Sr. can keep Jr. from standing in the pulpit. And its important to try. Having said that, I suggest you read the verses I gave (1 Cor 5:11-13). Purge the evil person from among you.. Hurting people.. can be either used wisely or used combatively depending on the circumstances. I know several individuals who consume large amounts of alcohol on a regular basis and seem to have normal lives and hold down great jobs or are self employed. Sproul 2 has his own household and is not part of his fathers household. I am all for using these tools but they are not a panacea. Having debunked this mythical correlation could everyone just stop speaking as though there is one? He is survived by his wife, Vesta, their two children, Sherrie Dorotiak and Robert Craig Sproul, eleven grandchildren, and seven great-grandchildren. That is odd. I dont know a lot about Sproul Sr, but Ive always been led to understand that he is a God-fearing man and pastor. I just dont know any. Perhaps youve never witnessed Matthew 18 church discipline carried out in a loving biblical manner. Your ex-church family sounds like a bunch of cheerless people. Thanks for sharing your story with us about your step-sons alcoholism and its impact on your family. Maybe H.A. I understand. I love this story. 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